Ishmael asks the narrator why he wants to know the Leavers’ story, and the narrator says it is something he feels he should know. Ishmael does not accept that reasoning, saying that although he wants to teach the Leavers’ story, he does not want to teach it just to satisfy the narrator’s curiosity. Finally, the narrator says that the Takers’ story is important because it tells people what not to do, but they cannot just abandon their story, since they need a new story to enact instead. The Leavers’ story, then, is a story that people could adopt instead of the Takers’.

Ishmael notes that humanity adopted a story to enact, but he asks how humanity became humanity more broadly. The narrator does not see a way to answer that question, so Ishmael tells him to keep it in mind as they proceed through the next lesson.

Ishmael asks why the Takers need to kill off the Leavers, as well as how the Takers view the Leavers. They both agree that Takers view the lifestyle of the Leavers, as well as their own lifestyles before agriculturalism, as “ugly” and miserable.